I have worked with and supported many good Apostles. I have been to the International Coalition of Apostles meeting. I respect Peter Wagner's desire to "organize" the apostles in the christian world.
There is a problem however. Despite the best intentions of Peter Wagner, this is not how it works. There is no indication that Apostolic Ascension happens by other apostles confirming the apostleship anointing on the apostle in question.
An Apostle in today's ecclesial environment are Kings. Kings became Kings in the Kingdom when Kings were anointed for ascension by a Prophet. And some who decided they were Kings were dethroned when they squandered their Kingship.
All of that is as it is today. And it operates exactly as it did in the Books of Samuel, Kings and Chronicles. No King ever anointed successfully the ascendant. That was done by the Prophet of the time. Or more important Prophets as a group.
So when I saw other Apostles anointing and conferring apostleship on people I knew it was wrong. It was out of order.
Now to be clear. A Prophet must be in order with an Apostle. He is submitted first to God and then to the Apostle of the house. I am. In one of the houses in which I serve I am marginally acknowledged as prophet. That doesn't change who I am. It changes the ability of that house to hear the word of the Lord clearly. And it changes the ability of the leadership to fulfil their destiny. However when I am in the house of the apostle I always stay in support and submission. But the word of the Lord must confirm and appoint the Apostle. The prophet must pour the anointing oil over the head of the Apostle for it to be genuine. It's not about levels of authority.
The Apostle must rule, judge, make decisions, direct. Yet the vision and the word of the Lord must come from the Prophet. We NEED both. We NEED the apostolic. And we need them hearing from GOD THRU the Prophet. Too many good Apostolic leaders have gone astray and failed because they didn't have prophets among them.
I am also concerned with the office of the Prophet and Apostle being mixed. I know some Apostles are Prophetic and some Prophets are Apostolic. But not as much as people think. Or as much as Apostles think. Let's not forget, a prophet will usually NOT offer a word that conflicts with the vision of the Apostle, but they will offer protection, caution, encouragement and vision.
We must be careful. We must not let the error of Saul who tried to do things outside of his call and his office to be commonplace in the body of Christ. I'm afraid the Apostle/Prophet thing is that for the most part.
This is out of order and needs to be corrected. I have contacted Peter Wagner on this, but he is not open to correction. So, I am placing this before you, you must decide.
Let's get the five fold in order. It's not now. There are some genuine apostles. There are many who's only apostleship appears on their business cards or the nameplate on their desk. They are impostors or pretenders. They were recommended and paid the five hundred bucks to become an apostle.
That's not how it works. If a person is a true apostle, if the anointing is on them, if the Lord confirms it, then and only then are they an apostle.
I would be even happier if a dozen prophets confirmed the anointing and office. We have to get this things in order. I hope we do.
We NEED the APOSTLES in the Body of Christ. And they need to be Genuine.
That's the job of a Prophet, not another Apostle.
There is a problem however. Despite the best intentions of Peter Wagner, this is not how it works. There is no indication that Apostolic Ascension happens by other apostles confirming the apostleship anointing on the apostle in question.
An Apostle in today's ecclesial environment are Kings. Kings became Kings in the Kingdom when Kings were anointed for ascension by a Prophet. And some who decided they were Kings were dethroned when they squandered their Kingship.
All of that is as it is today. And it operates exactly as it did in the Books of Samuel, Kings and Chronicles. No King ever anointed successfully the ascendant. That was done by the Prophet of the time. Or more important Prophets as a group.
So when I saw other Apostles anointing and conferring apostleship on people I knew it was wrong. It was out of order.
Now to be clear. A Prophet must be in order with an Apostle. He is submitted first to God and then to the Apostle of the house. I am. In one of the houses in which I serve I am marginally acknowledged as prophet. That doesn't change who I am. It changes the ability of that house to hear the word of the Lord clearly. And it changes the ability of the leadership to fulfil their destiny. However when I am in the house of the apostle I always stay in support and submission. But the word of the Lord must confirm and appoint the Apostle. The prophet must pour the anointing oil over the head of the Apostle for it to be genuine. It's not about levels of authority.
The Apostle must rule, judge, make decisions, direct. Yet the vision and the word of the Lord must come from the Prophet. We NEED both. We NEED the apostolic. And we need them hearing from GOD THRU the Prophet. Too many good Apostolic leaders have gone astray and failed because they didn't have prophets among them.
I am also concerned with the office of the Prophet and Apostle being mixed. I know some Apostles are Prophetic and some Prophets are Apostolic. But not as much as people think. Or as much as Apostles think. Let's not forget, a prophet will usually NOT offer a word that conflicts with the vision of the Apostle, but they will offer protection, caution, encouragement and vision.
We must be careful. We must not let the error of Saul who tried to do things outside of his call and his office to be commonplace in the body of Christ. I'm afraid the Apostle/Prophet thing is that for the most part.
This is out of order and needs to be corrected. I have contacted Peter Wagner on this, but he is not open to correction. So, I am placing this before you, you must decide.
Let's get the five fold in order. It's not now. There are some genuine apostles. There are many who's only apostleship appears on their business cards or the nameplate on their desk. They are impostors or pretenders. They were recommended and paid the five hundred bucks to become an apostle.
That's not how it works. If a person is a true apostle, if the anointing is on them, if the Lord confirms it, then and only then are they an apostle.
I would be even happier if a dozen prophets confirmed the anointing and office. We have to get this things in order. I hope we do.
We NEED the APOSTLES in the Body of Christ. And they need to be Genuine.
That's the job of a Prophet, not another Apostle.
1 comment:
You say that the “Apostle must rule, judge, make decisions, direct”. This is wrong apostles are to be sent out to build new work. The Holy Spirit is the one who should make decisions and direct. We do not need Apostles (bishops) to do this. Apostles are not kings. That is a very dangerous model.
Old Testament kings were not God’s best. They were put in place in a sub-optimal situation, so they are not a good model for the church.
Saul and David were the only kings to be anointed by a prophet (Jehu was too, but he was not an ideal, but evil to get rid of evil). Most other kings either seized power or inherited power, not an ideal option for the church.
The king should have been a Temporary Military Leader, to deliver the people from an external threat. That was why they were anointed for this task by a prophet. Saul and David led their nations to a military victory, but once the victory was won, their role disappeared.
God never intended them to be like Gentile Kings. Controlling Kings, judging, making decisions were never part of God’s plan.
Apostles are not kings. Prophets should not be annointing kings and controllers in the church.
PS Your picture of Palin is probably not lust, but it is presidolatory,
which is a more serious sin, related to the comment above.
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