Sunday, August 8, 2010

When the Apostolic gets out of Sync with the Prophetic there is Unneeded Exposure

In the last few years as the Apostolic and Prophetic gifts have begun to take their place in the church there is a trend that I am seeing which must be brought to light.

A Prophet without the balance of an Apostle is a loose cannon spiritually and can blow up a ministry by being out of order. He or She must be prepared to prophetically use the gift to build up the body of Christ and specifically the house in which the Prophet is operating.

IF there is to be correction or words they should be done privately and after much prayer. It should NOT be done flippantly or without thinking.

As a Prophet it follows a pattern: I see a situation in the Spirit. It speaks to me and much is revealed in it. I then have to make a decision. Will what I am about to bring build up or tear down? I imagine Nathan anguished for a while before he came to David who as King operated as the Apostle over the House of David in his time.

Only when released did he bring the word. And then boldly but with much respect. That is the orderly way. I am suspect of Popcorn Prophecy as I see practiced. Blasting away. Hit here, miss there. I have seen three different prophets prophesy three different things to the same person. No wonder people are confused. ONLY AFTER you as a Prophet have clearly heard from God for a person or a ministry should you go to them with a word. Yes, you can lay hands on a person and allow God to speak to you. That's the way it works. BUT, be careful. Loose cannons sink ships. Peoples lives are set on a course and a loose prophecy can take them off the course God set.

That's why a Prophecy should be judged. Carefully. When I bring a word I always tell people to judge it, hear it, ponder it and wait to see what God will do with it. If it's a word of correction (which I almost never give) then hear it and consider the course change needed. David had a choice. He could have had Nathans head torn off his body. It was his right as King. But he heard the word of the Lord and repented.

There has become a Problem with the Apostolic however that is equally and even more damaging to the Body of Christ. Apostles many times can operate in and flow in the Prophetic. Not all do, but many. Sometimes they are Prophets but posing as an Apostle. I know such. The few TRUE apostles I know can and will bring a word, but only if needed. They are not operating as a Prophet, but rather are activating the Spiritual GIFT of prophecy from 1 Corinthians 12.

The fact that the Apostle can Prophesy means he may become his own council. He hears from God for himself without any prophetic input in his life. An apostle that ONLY hears from God for himself is a danger. He can and WILL be deceived. The devil knows how to whisper in his ear. He knows how to make smooth words sound like God. Unless the Prophet who has NOTHING TO GAIN confirms or challenges what the apostle thinks he is hearing the Apostle is walking on thin spiritual ice without a guide.

The word of God says that The Church is built on the Foundation of the Apostles and Prophets. Not on the foundation of an Apostle with a Prophetic Gift or a Prophet who thinks he's an Apostle.

Am I saying the two are mutually exclusive. After much consideration of scripture the answer is YES. One can be and apostle and operate in the spiritual 1 Corinthian 12 gift of Prophecy. One can be a Prophet and Operate in the Spiritual gift of Wisdom and Discernment which can look a lot like the Apostolic. But both? I don't see it in operation that way. God wouldn't go to all that trouble to set his church on a foundation built of One gift without the other in place in another vessel.

I know churches who are trying to operate right now without the Prophetic with them. They are off course and will go shipwreck unless they start to receive the true prophet in their midst. I know of Churches led by those with great prophetic gifts who founder because they have no firm hand of an apostle at the helm. They might succeed for a while but eventually it will fall.

In this day and age the one man show is over. Even if that one man is a TRUE APOSTLE it will fall. Even Paul traveled two by two.

The Apostle who hears a word of Prophecy that HE doesn't agree with because it doesn't line exactly with his belief or vision of where God is taking him needs to reconsider and ponder. He may need to hear what the Spirit of God is saying. He can stay the course but with the strong prophetic word in his heart. That's what Paul did. That's what Barnabas did. They heard the prophets and then adjusted their course of action.

Sometimes the prophet WILL bring bad news. IF you do this, THAT will happen. The Apostle may not like the news, might not want the news, hopes that news is wrong but if he discounts it out of hand he will discover that at some point in the future the manifestation of that thing coming to pass. A course correction might have solved the problem. Now it's too late.

It doesn't mean God won't use the Apostle who ignores the word of warning, it's just that the warfare will be far more intense than it would have been if he had.

We have had several examples in the past few years where a great man or woman of God with great influence did NOT have strong Prophetic people around them who they would listen to. People with the Ministry Gift of the Apostle who are now on a course of shipwreck because they would not or did not listen to prophetic words given them.

OR worse, chose not to have even ONE proven bold prophet in their midst to speak into their lives with courage like Nathan. I think of Benny Hinn and Paula White. I know Ted Haggard had prophets who spoke to him of his folly early on, he didn't hear. Most large ministry leaders are so untouchable in their own eyes that they are subjected to all kinds of deception, mostly driven by money. Money is deceitful, riches or lack of.

Worse than all is a Court Prophet who is "Hired" by a ministry to stroke the Apostle. His gift is not only wasted, it's an abomination. Look at the life of Jeremiah. He took after the court prophets with a vengeance. AS HE SHOULD HAVE.

There are many examples.

If you are carrying the Gift of an Apostle, you MUST have a Prophet who will speak absolute fearless truth to you or you will fall. You cannot be your own prophet. You will become deceived and eventually a public spectacle.

I know THIS is the Word of the Lord.

8 comments:

Tim Thomas said...

We must remember that a Prophet is subject TO a Prophet. And really not to anyone else. For a prophet, they usually have someone else that hears the Word and acknowledges the truth of it and not the Pastor. When we talk about "The presence of 2 or 3 witnesses", those witnesses need to operate in discernment, prophecy, knowledge or wisdom, or a combination. If a Prophet is to give a Word, he must always ask for the Holy Spirit to confirm and clarify the WORD. So he is not misled. And pray about the when where and how to deliver.

Heart n Hands Inc. said...

May I bring further clarification here?

Apostle is an office separate from that of a Pastor.

Eph 4:11 And He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Not all pastors are Apostles and not all Apostles pastor a church. But rather they speak to pastors, pastoring them, mentoring, correcting (mostly in private through sound doctrine and exhortation and not necessarily by rebuke, but when needed then yes that too)

Apostles operate at various times in all the categories, (Jesus did) because they are fore runners, they blaze a trail, they break new ground, they begin things, 1st in the spirit and then in the natural. They are intercessors,(Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,) they prophecy and pull out of Heaven and decree it on earth, they teach, they shepherd those given to them, they evangelize... They also strengthen, exhort and speak prophetically into people's lives.

Apostles have an audience/arena given to them by God. Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles... and those specifically ordered by God. Peter to the Jews, etc. Just as every Prophet needs to know his message, his audience, and the the timing for releasing that message, so too, each Apostle needs to know those given to them.

Apostles and Prophets are foundation builders. They build upon the foundation of Jesus Christ as well as restore foundations and strengthen foundations.

The Apostolic quite often deals with protecting the foundation and making sure it is sound, and then imparting or encouraging Vision for the expansion upon that foundation.

Prophets do rebuke, but more often they are put into our midst to encourage, edify, and confirm. They speak to our spirit man and energize him through the flow of the Holy Spirit to refresh us and bring restoration and enlightenment, confirmation of what God is speaking to our hearts already, etc.

Both offices are needed. Both must be honored, and allowed to flow. And both must be accountable to God, each other,and those they are sent to serve.

Heart n Hands Inc. said...

May I bring further clarification here?

Apostle is an office separate from that of a Pastor.

Eph 4:11 And He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Not all pastors are Apostles and not all Apostles pastor a church. But rather they speak to pastors, pastoring them, mentoring, correcting (mostly in private through sound doctrine and exhortation and not necessarily by rebuke, but when needed then yes that too)

Apostles operate at various times in all the categories, (Jesus did) because they are fore runners, they blaze a trail, they break new ground, they begin things, 1st in the spirit and then in the natural. They are intercessors,(Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,) they prophecy and pull out of Heaven and decree it on earth, they teach, they shepherd those given to them, they evangelize... They also strengthen, exhort and speak prophetically into people's lives.

Apostles have an audience/arena given to them by God. Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles... and those specifically ordered by God. Peter to the Jews, etc. Just as every Prophet needs to know his message, his audience, and the the timing for releasing that message, so too, each Apostle needs to know those given to them.

Apostles and Prophets are foundation builders. They build upon the foundation of Jesus Christ as well as restore foundations and strengthen foundations.

The Apostolic quite often deals with protecting the foundation and making sure it is sound, and then imparting or encouraging Vision for the expansion upon that foundation.

Prophets do rebuke, but more often they are put into our midst to encourage, edify, and confirm. They speak to our spirit man and energize him through the flow of the Holy Spirit to refresh us and bring restoration and enlightenment, confirmation of what God is speaking to our hearts already, etc.

Both offices are needed. Both must be honored, and allowed to flow. And both must be accountable to God, each other,and those they are sent to serve.

Heart n Hands Inc. said...

Part 1

May I bring further clarification here?

Apostle is an office separate from that of a Pastor.

Eph 4:11 And He gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Not all pastors are Apostles and not all Apostles pastor a church. But rather they speak to pastors, pastoring them, mentoring, correcting (mostly in private through sound doctrine and exhortation and not necessarily by rebuke, but when needed then yes that too)

Apostles operate at various times in all the categories, (Jesus did) because they are fore runners, they blaze a trail, they break new ground, they begin things, 1st in the spirit and then in the natural. They are intercessors,(Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,) they prophecy and pull out of Heaven and decree it on earth, they teach, they shepherd those given to them, they evangelize... They also strengthen, exhort and speak prophetically into people's lives.

Apostles have an audience/arena given to them by God. Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles... and those specifically ordered by God. Peter to the Jews, etc. Just as every Prophet needs to know his message, his audience, and the the timing for releasing that message, so too, each Apostle needs to know those given to them.

continued in next comment post...

Heart n Hands Inc. said...

Part 2

Apostles and Prophets are foundation builders. They build upon the foundation of Jesus Christ as well as restore foundations and strengthen foundations.

The Apostolic quite often deals with protecting the foundation and making sure it is sound, and then imparting or encouraging Vision for the expansion upon that foundation.

Prophets do rebuke, but more often they are put into our midst to encourage, edify, and confirm. They speak to our spirit man and energize him through the flow of the Holy Spirit to refresh us and bring restoration and enlightenment, confirmation of what God is speaking to our hearts already, etc.

Both offices are needed. Both must be honored, and allowed to flow. And both must be accountable to God, each other,and those they are sent to serve.

Ron McK said...

The apostolic ministry is a long way from being restored. Most of what is being called apostolic is just spiritual bishops.

Apostles are sent out to the cutting edge. They do not stay at the center and collect power and authority.

Gene said...

Ron, you speak correctly. I know many who call themselves apostles but are in fact operating in gifts, but not Apostolic. I know a FEW, fewer than anyone will admit.

Those few follow the principle of establishing and travel.

The glaring lack of regard for the Prophetic and the idea that one can be their own prophet is the problem I address. I NEED TO HEAR THE WORD OF THE LORD spoken by other prophets.

Yes I hear it for myself, but I value prophetic input. Many times it gives me confirmation of what I already hear. Or helps me hear something not yet matured in my spirit.

I guess that's why there's a body. AND I will give public attribution. YOU have helped me get a handle on some of this. You have spoken words of prophecy over me without even knowing it.

With increasing clarity and a larger field of influence I speak to leadership areas of correction and encouragement.

prophetic expressions in memory of apostle L. mcwilliams said...

had a roommate in college who was an apostle at church, woah!!! things supernatural happened around this person my eyes were wide open and amazed, this person upheld prophets in the time when not so widely acceptable, this apostle tried to even help open pastor up to the giftings of the Holy spirit at times when there was no other to do so,,,meeting a real apostle person is quite exciting ride, saw this person everynite study the word . i was lucky to see such things happening spiritually with this apostle around, though the church eventually ignored this once in a lifetime apostle threw their lack of knowing the gift,,,,,i often think about this person and the power of God that flowed forth,,,when you meet a real apostle not one just in name youll know,,,,it is truely the Holy spirits will that prophet and apostle work together,,,wish this apostle was still around cause things would be shaking,,,try living with one and see the power of God move.........selah!